🌟 Explore an enlightening dialogue in the video titled "Conversations with Joshua T Berglan featuring Terry Tucker." Join esteemed host Joshua T Berglan as he engages in a profound discussion with motivational speaker Terry Tucker, an individual renowned for his authenticity and inspiration.

In this thought-provoking interview, Joshua introduces Terry, delving deep into a myriad of topics. Uncover the genuine nature of motivational speakers, the compelling influence of narratives, and Terry's courageous battle with melanoma. Delve into the importance of empathy in negotiations and gain valuable insights on cultivating gratitude amidst life's challenges.

Terry Tucker imparts his wisdom on embracing obstacles and underscores the significance of channeling our unique gifts and talents. Throughout the conversation, pivotal themes such as trust, truth, and emotional connection resound, offering viewers a profound perspective on life's fundamental elements.

This video is an invaluable opportunity to glean insights from Terry Tucker's personal journey. It serves as a reservoir of motivation, leaving you empowered and ready to confront life's adversities with resilience and gratitude. Do not miss this chance to embark on a transformative journey with Terry Tucker and Joshua T Berglan.

🔍 Timestamps:

0:00 Introduction: Conversations with Joshua T Berglan featuring Terry Tucker

0:12 Exploring the Authenticity of Motivational Speakers

0:58 Understanding the Importance of Emotional Connection

2:01 Terry's Inspiring Journey and Sources of Inspiration

4:32 Rebuilding Trust and Reconnection

5:15 Cultivating Gratitude for Faith, Family, and Friends

9:28 Developing Emotional Resilience in the Face of Adversity

12:04 The Impactful Power of Stories

15:02 Lessons Learned from Life's Challenges

19:04 Mastering Emotional Control and Maintaining Equilibrium

23:10 Truth and Trust in Hostage Negotiations

27:33 Establishing Trust Through Tactical Empathy

32:03 Navigating Emotions in Personal Relationships

36:52 Striking a Balance Between Empathy and Self-Protection

41:47 Recognizing the Significance of Emotional Engagement

45:58 Conclusion and Insights into Future Projects

Transcript

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Joshua Berglan: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to conversations with Joshua Tee. Berglan. And I'm so honored today to have back the one and only Mr. Terry Tucker Terry. I am so happy to have you back. It's good to see your face again. How you doing today, man?

Terry Tucker: I'm great Joshua. Thanks for having me back. I'm really looking forward to talking with you today.

Joshua Berglan: Yeah, you're one of my favorite people that I've ever had on and I think I told you before we hit record, I don't remember what we talked about last time, but I just walked away from it That is one of my favorite people on the planet. It's one of my favorite interviews. I love the conversation so I'm glad to have you back before we get into the conversation. I'd love to know. What are you grateful for today and why?

Terry Tucker: what I'm grateful for every day and it's what I call my 3x, which are faith, family and friends. I've been battling a rare form of melanoma for the last 11 and a half years and absolutely positively. Without those three f's, I would not still be here. They are the reason I keep going, they are the courage, the strength that is put into my body from these people. I can't do I don't think any of us do anything in life by ourselves these people. and my God.

Terry Tucker: They've got me to this point. I mean, there have been several times when I've been dead, I remember after I had my leg amputated, my oncologist showed me my cat scan photos and I have no medical background. I don't know how to read a cat scan, but you can kind of look at boy. That doesn't look like it should be there, and things like that. And I had these big tumors in my lungs. That flew it all around the plural spaces, of the outside of my lungs. And I remember looking at my colleges and saying, How was I alive? And I can still see it. He kind of put his head down and shook his head. No. And then left his head up and looked at me and he said I don't know because you shouldn't have been which said to me, God's not done with me. how I die way. Above my pay grade, don't spend a lot of time worrying about that.

Joshua Berglan: But what's the actual name of the melanoma you have?

Terry Tucker: It's called acro litigenous malignant melanoma. Say that three times fast.

Joshua Berglan: I couldn't say it once fast. Okay, so can you explain why? That's where? So I think my father died from melanoma. The melanoma spread went into his lymph nodes he did 30 days straight a full brain radiation. It was Humbling to watch one of the most proud people. I know. Get redo And he walked at the strut like he owned every room, he walked in. And he was resorted to shuffling his feet and barely moving until eventually he died. It was awful, but that was what is the difference between the melanoma that you have in a battling and…

Terry Tucker: 

Joshua Berglan: defeating versus the melanoma that most people know about,

Terry Tucker: Yeah, so most people think of melanoma as too much exposure to the sun and…

Joshua Berglan: Right.

Terry Tucker: it affects the melon, the pigment in our skin, my type actor, acroelectigenous it has nothing to do with sun exposure. It appears on the bottom of the feet or the palms of the hands. There's an even rare form that we were talking about before called ocular melanoma that appears in the eyes and there's even another form that it's incredibly rare that appears in your mucus membranes so your nose, in your mouth in your anus or something like that, it's still melanoma but it is not brought on by too much exposure to the sun and I'll give you kind of a funny story when I was

Terry Tucker: Young when I was a teenager growing up and we had acne and things like that, my mother would take us to the dermatologist and This is the 1970s back in the 70s. They would put us under a sun lamp, get those UV rays to dry out your acne, which we know today is the reason you had melanoma. So, I mean, just in my lifetime, how far they have come with melanoma because I was diagnosed in 2012, they told me If I got a miracle, I would live five years more than likely. I would be dead in two because they had nothing to offer me other than surgery. If there was…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: if it was I don't know about your dad, some place, we can cut it out. We'll try to cut it out, but if it's someplace, we just don't have anything to treat you with.

Joshua Berglan: All right, I'm gonna ask you something, because you're on the motivational speaking circuit. you get to speak and what and it's an honor, it is a privilege and a gift to have the opportunity to share your story. if you get on stage, like you did something to earn it and it has something to do with an expertise or an overcoming. But I don't want to talk to you about that part. what I want to talk to you about is the moments before and after You go on stage.

00:05:00

Terry Tucker: I got on stage usually because of somebody that I know or something like that. So, for me, I do not want to let that person down, I absolutely want to come with a game and I do and, I'm in a wheelchair now, and I'm missing a leg and things like that. So, wherever I go, I go with she helps me out, she does all this kind of stuff and I kind of practice on her. It's like, all right, I'm thinking about this. What do you think? And she is it, again, faith, family and friends, she is like, not feeling that one or, yeah, that's really good. You should develop that and things like that. So,

Terry Tucker: What I go on stage thinking, I want to do with the absolute best, but not It's about the people that I'm trying to make their lives better. if you go up there and say, here let me tell you my story and look how great I am. Look what I've overcome you turn people off, they don't I mean, I hate to say this, but people are narcissistic. They want you to know about yourself. you want to know about yourself?

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: That's fine, but You got to give them part of yourself. You've got to be authentic. You've got to be vulnerable. You've got to say, Look, Here's something that's worked for me. I don't have all the answers, I don't know and be genuine enough to say, as you want to ask me. I don't know the answer to that question. I can't help you. So, that's kind of the before part. Do you have to part is

Terry Tucker: And I picked myself apart, it's like, I've been on 600 podcasts since I started doing podcasts. I listened to every episode What went wrong. How many times did I say? I tighten up? What other stories can I introduce? How can we learn by stories? We've learned by telling stories not just by giving facts and…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: Giving facts of information is fine but if you can tie it to a story you're absolutely gonna have the person. Remember what you said as opposed to, let me tell you that one out of five adults lie every day, that's great. Okay, fine.

Joshua Berglan: What am I going to do with that?

Terry Tucker: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: Yeah, Terry said with that but if you tie it to a story, the personal,…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: remember the story. And so I debrief and I did that as a SWAT team hostage negotiator after every single call out we did we went back in and debriefed What went wrong what could we do better than next time? So that's kind of my before and after of speaking

Joshua Berglan: after I want to focus on, I want to ask you about is emotionally. What? And I could be projecting this, I don't know, but when I speak I'm sharing a part of me in a piece of me and I'm letting people To a very vulnerable. Dark scary, beautiful place.

Joshua Berglan: I'm done. I feel like I've just complete my bear and naked and wounded. That's what it's like for me. And then I have to kind of go through this process of rebuilding myself back up as quickly as possible because of the interaction with the crowd afterwards. That part is very very challenging for me.

Terry Tucker: Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: For you because you're sharing not just wisdom and inspiration and motivation but you're sharing a piece of you as well and our stories are different. But at the same time, what you're sharing is very personal. What is it like for you emotionally and how do you keep yourself protected? So that you can keep giving because when you give of yourself, You are emptying yourself where you don't have. Anything to give other people. Sometimes your family can be sacrificed in that or friends like something sacrif when you give of yourself. it's not like you've an endless amount to give. So, how are you protecting yourself and keeping yourself healthy and full? I guess is the question.

Terry Tucker: And that's a great question and I know when I'm done giving a talk. I'm usually, Spent dr exhausted, whatever you want to call it. I'm usually sweating, a lot of times, I'll sweat through my shirt and things like that, just because it's almost playing a sporting event that you're,…

00:10:00

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: you're just not talking, you're engaging your body. you're tightening your poor. You're doing all that kind of stuff, that I did, when I play basketball college, and I'm stoked. It's like, I'm gonna take a shower, Okay, deodorant,…

Joshua Berglan: yeah.

Terry Tucker: don't fail me down, so I mean that's a huge part of it, but you had on something incredibly important and something that I've been talking about

Terry Tucker: A lot lately on podcasts and it's the point, you mentioned emptying yourself out. And I think that's so powerful, because I think so many people, think that when they sort of get into life, they get out of school, whether it's high school college or something beyond and they get into life, That they're born empty and their job should be then to fill themselves up. I got to get a great education, I got to get a great job, make a lot of money drive. The latest car, have the latest iPhone, have a great family, have great and we tend to think that by filling ourselves up, we are somehow going to be fulfilled and happy.

Terry Tucker: And Joshua, what I find in life is it's just the opposite. We're not born empty, we're born full, we're born with everything. We need to be successful already inside of this. We just need to find what's Pull it out and use it to our benefit. So it's not about Filling ourselves up. It's about what you just said it's about or life should be. I think about emptying ourselves out with our unique gifts, and talents certainly for the betterment of ourselves, but also for the betterment of our family of our friends of our community of our country, etc.

Joshua Berglan: That's so good. Yeah, I'm a firm believer that are gifts and our talents have nothing to do with us. We just are blessed to get to use them. They are for other people, we can use them for ourselves…

Terry Tucker: Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: but That's where we get the Hitler's of the world. Wait, it was all good.

Terry Tucker: Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Joshua Berglan: That's a weird thing to say, but there's obviously a gift there and he used it for all the wrong reasons if he would have used it for good.

Terry Tucker: Right. Right.

Joshua Berglan: He would have changed the world for the better. you…

Terry Tucker: Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: so it's not about us and that's such a beautiful thing and one way that I helped kind of reframe the trauma and things like that, that I went through was realizing that it happened for me. when I got to a place that I could be grateful for all the hell that I went through self-inflicted and not, but I could look at it. I learned something from that that made me better that perfected me in this area or that helped shape me. it gave me life in the end is how I can look at And that is a beautiful place for me to be.

Joshua Berglan: and I live with the consequences of my actions every day having HIV and in some of the other things that I have from just abusing my body and my health over the years and the good Lord has blessed me to be able to rehabilitate my life, and become healthy and have An amazing queen is of a partner and Jessica and two beautiful kids, God has been so good to me. Because I believe I found a way. To find gratitude through the crap. For you because you live with the consequences of you didn't ask for the cancer, but you live with it every day you live with the consequences of that cancer of that thing, and that brings its own challenges every day.

Joshua Berglan: Do you ever? Because I know that you're a grateful guy, there's no doubt about it, but do you ever get resentful towards what happened? And then if you do, how do you overcome that?

Terry Tucker: No, and I don't want your audience, I mean you're looking at me now. There's no s on my chest that do not have a cake and fly around with magical powers, I mean I'm a human being just like everything out everybody else. But I remember when I got cancer,…

Joshua Berglan: Uh-huh.

Terry Tucker: People would come up to me and they would be like, you got cancer. That's really tough. Who do I like, We have to blame somebody, I mean, people start down the road toward a goal or something like that and then they butt up against an impediment. Something gets in their way and they can't get over it around or through it, so they quit, but we just don't quit. No. Now we got a blame somebody for. We got to blame our parents or our station in life or, our boss or whoever ends up being. So people would be like who do you blame? So I don't blame anybody because I got cancer. And then when people find out that you have a faith like that you believe in something bigger than yourself,

00:15:00

Terry Tucker: They're like, you must blame God and I used to joke with them. I'd be like, No, I don't think God got up on a Tuesday morning. Check this to-do list and said, Hey Terry Tucker cancer today. I don't know that at all, but I do believe he's giving me the courage, the strength, the motivation, the discipline, to continue to move forward, it forward. And I'll say this about cancer. It is taught me a lot but it's taught me too incredibly important things one. I don't think you really know yourself until you've been tested by some form of adversity in life. Two answers made me a better human being.

Joshua Berglan: It's true.

Terry Tucker: It's made me appreciate the things that I have. It's made me realize, just how Stupid. All the things that I used to try to deal with.

Terry Tucker: I'll tell you a quick story. So when I was in college, I went to college at the Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina, which is a military college. And one year we had a president of the school by the name of James Stockdale that name may or may not ring a bell for you. He was a naval aviator. He actually got shot down during the Vietnam War and spent eight years at the infamous Prisoner of War camp. The years to call down Holy Hilton and…

Joshua Berglan: What?

Terry Tucker: he actually won the Medal of Honor for everything. He did while he was a prisoner of war and Ross Perot who ran for president back in the 1980s Pick. Stockdale has just Monument. So anyway,…

Joshua Berglan: That guy. no,…

Terry Tucker: Yeah. Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: you're talking about.

Terry Tucker: I mean when you put it in context, I remember that guy. Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: So, I remember he was the president of the college. I was a cadet, I did not have a lot of interaction with him, but I remember being at an event one time and somebody asked who were the people that survived, that prisoner of war camp. That brutality that torture, that abuse. And he said, let me tell you, who didn't survive. He said it wasn't the big strong tall tough guys. That thought that they could handle any kind of abuse or torture. And this kind of surprised me. The other group he said that didn't survive, were the optimists.

Terry Tucker: He said those were the people who thought. we'll be rescued or let go by Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter and Thanksgiving and Christmas and Easter would come and go and…

Joshua Berglan: .

Terry Tucker: they wouldn't be rescued and those people would die of a broken heart. He said, The people that survived were the people that understood what they could control, which according to stock, there was basically the air in our lungs. And the thoughts in our mind, everything else was at the discretion of the enemy. When they got beat when they got when they got rest, everything was the discretion that And I think the point there is we spend so much time trying to control things that are outside of our control, understand what you can control in life and control that and I promise you, you'll be a whole lot happier.

Joshua Berglan: it's very stoic.

Terry Tucker: Yeah, let's go Stack. That wasn't stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Berglan: What all he was,…

Joshua Berglan: okay, I've been learning about that the last six months, and

Terry Tucker: Yes. Yes.

Joshua Berglan: Yeah, let's talk about this. for me, I came to this realization about six months ago. That I used to have a really horrific lows and different things and I've struggled with mental health issues for majority of my life. And I'm getting on the other hand of it on the other side of things where I'm starting to become aware, so that I can get on top of it or stop it before it happens. And I become very, very self-aware. But one of the things that is new to me which is kind of a surprise because I knew this of myself is I'm very excitable. Come, I'm like a little kid at Christmas all the time I think of the movie would any

Terry Tucker: Yeah. Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: how excited he is? That is me. I'm like a little kid about anything that excites me and it The smallest thing that the sun is hitting the trees a certain way, or it could be anything or an opportunity or I meet somebody and I get excited because of the possibilities and I get myself so elevated. That the only possibility is to crash. and I've noticed that, My excitement and my rage have The same negative effect on me. Afterwards. And that was a very

00:20:00

Joshua Berglan: I'm glad I figured it out, but it caused some very uncomfortableness in my life as I started to realize. How do I not get excited, where is that balance? and what happened initially for me? I just started to detach detaching, for me is not good disassociating. That caused that. So now, I've kind of worked my way back in with I've been a practicing stoicism and practicing learning to be silent, not talking much, which is great for a talk shows. But I'm practicing it. So I want to ask you and it's been life-changing. It's changed my relationships. It's changed how I deal with people. It's changed. How I receive information? It's been an amazing practice for me. But I want to ask you because you were a hostage negush negotiator. Correct.

Joshua Berglan: So I'm sure there's a lot of Stoic principles in that as well. is that a good guess? Okay. Okay,…

Terry Tucker: There can be yes, yes.

Joshua Berglan: so I want to ask you in that kind of situation. When you have the most hostile of crazy possibilities, you don't know what's gonna happen. Tensions are super high. It's very unpredictable for you in that situation. How do you keep yourself? Even killed where you're not letting the situation affect you negatively. As my God! This is so sad. this is horrific. I can't believe this all these murders happened or whatever it was. and then at the same time, how do you keep yourself from getting elevated to the point of wanting just to take the gun and stick it, the guy's head and how do you keep yourself here?

Terry Tucker: yeah, and you're right, and I mean life, for most of us has played out Here in the middle. I mean, we remember the highs and lows, remember the weddings and the birthdays and the graduations that we remember the funerals and the illness and…

Joshua Berglan: Okay.

Terry Tucker: the And when we get let go from our jobs, But that's what we remember because the extremes, but life is lived in the middle,…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: it's the day in day out, hard of ugly work that nobody sees where you become successful, it's not the bottoms. It's the middle. And so

Terry Tucker: Part of the answer to your question is we would train every month. We would train with a psychologist in a scenario-based, kind of training where I was the hostage taker, I was the negotiator whatever. So we would do a lot of practice and then, as I mentioned before the debrief, so okay, we would sit back and the psychologist may say to you, that did you ever think this person might have been schizophrenic and author medication? Nope, that's never entered my mind, so it's that constant, the more you do, the better you get at it. The more tools you have in your toolbox to say, this is for real now. Maybe this person is Schizophren or maybe they just got caught up in a bad situation or whatever it ended up being. So that was part of it and the other thing

Terry Tucker: That was incredibly difficult, incredibly exhausting as a negotiator. I mean you're sitting in a mobile home, two blocks from the person. you've got a bathroom. You've got You got food. Everything's great. Why are you exhausted when the negotiation is over and the reason is because you're trying to connect with these people on an emotional level? What you start always say is when we were kids growing up at, we could go to the park and you would play on a seesaw or a Peter Father. And what we would say is when we started negotiating, with the person, their emotional brain was way up in the air

Terry Tucker: And they're rational brain was way down on the ground and using different techniques like how and what questions we would never ask people.

Joshua Berglan: Mmm.

Terry Tucker: Why question was Hey Joshua why did you do that? wait a minute is he accusing me? that sounds accusatory I didn't get to the same information. What got us to this point Joshua by asking a much softer? What question. So we would ask these questions. We would get them to burn off a lot of that Energy. So hopefully that Teeter Potter was at equilibrium and then

Terry Tucker: For more discussions and things like that. We would get it to the point where they're rational brain was way up on the top and their emotional brain was down in the ground. That's the time. You can start talking about letting hostages go put the gun down coming out when they're yelling and screaming. you're not talking about coming out or anything like that and so we all make better decisions when we use our rational brain versus our emotional brain. But the problem with us was I had to get down in the weeds with you. I had to get down in the mud with you. So if you're ran and raven about your mother, and I make some comment

00:25:00

Terry Tucker: You seem like you're a little upset with your mother. I totally missed No your business. And get your mother. That's where you got to go with those people. You've got to get down on their emotional level. Yes, I hate my mother. She's such a and they would go off on a million different, expletives And like I said, if you missed it and said, you seem a little upset? No, Curious, I'm pissed off on all that. That's and so again I'm engaging, the core I'm doing all that kind of stuff. I'm and four hours later it's like, God, I'm exhausted.

Terry Tucker: Because you were down in the weeds with these people, but you had to do that because the overarching thing that we did as negotiators, just like you do with people, you work with you, do with your spouse, you do with your kids is trust. We're trying to build trust with another human being…

Joshua Berglan: Good.

Terry Tucker: who we have never met before and get them to tell us. Potentially some of the most delicate embarrassing things that have happened or going on in their life, to get them to a point where they trust us. for example, you could say something to me and I could say Joshua, how am I supposed to do that?

Terry Tucker: That's what I might say. Back to you. what did I just do? One, I just lob the ball back into your court and two. Now, I've gotten you to engage with me to help, get you out safely, because you're thinking, Okay, how's he supposed to do? Now, you're engaged to get yourself out. and I just asked one simple question. So those were some of the techniques that we would use.

Joshua Berglan: So I don't know if this question will make sense, but I feel led to ask someone to ask.

Joshua Berglan: What did you learn about From hostage negotiations.

Terry Tucker: I mean I've always felt that integrity was one of the most important things you had as a police officer. I mean, you're around people. I mean, you're on around a car, it's your office. Nobody knows what you're gonna do or, you could do stupid stuff. And there are people, I work with, they did some incredibly stupid stuff, but one of the things we did, as negotiators Is we never lied to somebody? people would say to us I'll come out but you got a promise me that I'm not gonna go to jail.

Terry Tucker: And we would have to say I'm sorry when you come out you are gonna go to jail and then we would try to deflect the conversations as something that was more pleasant. And the reason we did that was not because, we were ALTERISTIC or, saints or anything. It was simply the fact that there was a good chance and this happened several times, I didn't perform a half years that two years from now, we would be right back negotiating with that exact person about the exact same issue. again, I talked about, maybe he had a huge fight with his mother, and he got so upset that he grabbed it got any barricaded himself. Mom still around, I'm still pushing his buttons.

Joshua Berglan: Okay.

Terry Tucker: So two years from now. We're back negotiating and…

Joshua Berglan: Wow.

Terry Tucker: if he ever thought Terry last time you lied to me.

Terry Tucker: what if your wife did something that caused that trust relationship? Or your kids did something that caused that trust relationship to break? all of a sudden, I'm no good as negotiator, you got to bring in another negotiator to talk to this guy, because he doesn't trust me anymore. And there's no way I'm gonna be able to build back that trust in. even hours, even days somebody, really hurts you breaks your trust. I mean, it said, I may forgive you and I'm probably not gonna forget about this incident.

Joshua Berglan: Okay, when I was in my debauchery phase of my first 36 years of life. I, for some reason dated, a lot of psychiatrists, I don't know because it made no sense. You think they would have known to stay away from me. But nonetheless, one of the most frustrating things about dating a psychologist or psychiatrist was that In the middle of a conversation, I felt like, my God, they're treating me like a client. Now, they're doing their Thing on me. So, I want to ask you in your relationship.

00:30:00

Joshua Berglan: With your wife. How? Does she ever ask you are you doing that thing to me right now? Did she ever do that to you?

Terry Tucker: By my lap, one of the things we used to do. roting. It's called mirroring now. so we would let you talk. And then we would either repeat back to you said, the most important one or two words that you say. And then we would go silent. And we would be silent for at least And five seconds is a long time. We don't silence in our communication. so,

Terry Tucker: it would get the other person to start again and I did this I was having a pre-call with somebody about doing a podcast and I thought I'm gonna try this and just see and I did I mean they said something and then I just pair it back the last two words they said and then they just kept talking and then I paired it back the last three words that they said and then they just kept talking and so It's an effective tool to use, especially if you think someone's lying or something like that, you can get to them, and it's amazing. about 33% of adults lie. Habitually, it's one in five when it comes to no, it's the opposite. It's and it's one in three for college kids. Just one in five for adults.

Joshua Berglan: Wow.

Terry Tucker: And we're terrible at detect the lives. We're about a 50/50 shot Somebody's line to me or somebody's telling me the truth. So we're not real good at being able to detect lies but that was another thing. I mean, what somebody lying to us, I mean we would spend sometimes hours over here talking to somebody about something. When the real issue, the real problem, the real reason we were there was over here. And they didn't trust us enough to talk about what was really the reason that their house was surrounded by the police and they were talking us. So yeah I mean yes I used it but the funny thing about it was my wife and I have a daughter and I know all this stuff.

Terry Tucker: But then when our daughter would take her milk glass and just pip it over and drop it all over the floor. What engaged for me, the emotional part of it. And now,…

Joshua Berglan: Sure.

Terry Tucker: all of a sudden I'm reacting with Not my rational brain and it's like, you're an idiot. Your hostage to go straight. You want to kill themselves and yet you're a daughter is driving you nuts. Yeah.

Joshua Berglan: what is that about though? Because that's a real life thing I can think of When it comes to what I'm good at and how I get to work with people. sometimes when it comes to doing that with Jessica or the kids, it's like I don't even know how to do any of that that I could do for other people. is it that love makes us stupid and forget or love makes us to emotional. What do you think that's all about?

Terry Tucker: I think it's the emotion part of it, when I'm talking to somebody who's barricaded or something like that, I don't know them. I don't have any emotional attachment to them and…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: and I try to I mean like I said that you have that balance because you need to get down in the weeds with them. You got it. Make sure they understand that you realize that they are furious at their mother. But at the same time, I'm not furious at their mother. I'm not furious at them. I'm I'm getting double time and a half because you decided to barricade yourself with the gums guns. So this is great for me financially. But I don't have that emotional connection because I don't know the person Whereas,…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: with your wife or your daughter, or your kids or whatever, you've got that emotional connection, and like I said, we make better decisions with our rational brains, then we do with our emotional brands.

Joshua Berglan: What up? That seems like a cruel joke that it's set up that way because It just doesn't even seem fair. Thank you.

Terry Tucker: it's

Joshua Berglan: I gotta figure this out, we could I just forget everything I work on, with my coach. I mean, I forget about be contemplating, forget about thinking, before I talk for getting, I forget everything. Sometimes it's unbelievable. I like to figure this out. Okay. So, Yeah, please.

Terry Tucker: Can I just add one thing to that? Okay, so the emotions are what separate us from the other animals. So it's important to have those and not to cut those off. It's important to feel, you've got to feel, and it's okay to feel, stoicism is not so much. I think the absence of feeling it's trying to understand the feeling as they come about and what's the best use of those feelings for you in your life at that point in time? for people that are listening to us Stoicism is, I just don't feel anything. I have no emotions, what? You can't be like that, you're a human being. You were given emotions for a reason that's what separates us from, the animals and things like that.

00:35:00

Joshua Berglan: Actually, hold on. I want to add to what you just said because you're 100%,…

Terry Tucker: Okay.

Joshua Berglan: that was kind of a very confusing thing for me, learning stoicism, but I needed to cut off, I needed to be able to pull down some of my emotion. But the part that is working for me right now,…

Terry Tucker: Right.

Joshua Berglan: I created a new trigger for my brain. That and again, I need more practice. I've got some real world practice with this, I get to do but I was listening to A former CIA guy talk and he was talking about, some of the situations that they get in and the talking about perception. How we perceive versus what's actually real? but we all make the hat. I think as a whole A lot of times are just not based in reality or at least the first perceptions. So I heard him talk about how he broke that habit or something like that. He?

Joshua Berglan: instead of going with what his first thought, he found himself and really what an equated to was a form of empathy, but he tried to look at every other scenario possible rather than What he thought and he made it all about that other person. What's really going on? why are they telling me to take a long walk off a short pier? Why are they cursing me out? Why are they saying that? But to look at it more and he didn't use the word empathy, but to me, that's what it was saying, was that I got to try to put myself in their shoes to understand,

Joshua Berglan: Allowed me to become more empathetic with people. That's been a new thing, and it's taken The normal emotions that I would have towards a situation where I would try to make it about me, it's reversed that a little bit. But here's my question.

Joshua Berglan: If we allow ourselves to be too empathetic, do we set ourselves up for more betrayal or more hurt and more pain.

Terry Tucker: I guess, potentially we do. I mean, one of the things that we used as negotiers, what was called tactical empathy, which was helped me to understand, where you're coming from again, help me to understand it. I'm not gonna necessarily agree with it. I mean if I'm talking to a homicide suspect who's just shot three people, I'm not gonna, yeah, you're perfectly justified for doing that. But help me to understand And where you're coming from? What made you do that? Because what that does is it creates trust? Terry gets me.

Joshua Berglan: 

Terry Tucker: He understands now again not agreeing but Terry understands me okay we're building trust. that was an incredibly important thing that we did was tactical empathy. And again.

Terry Tucker: I want to understand it. I'm not gonna agree with it and I'm not emotionally invested in it. I'm really sorry that you're gonna spend the rest of your life in prison or you're gonna decide to shoot yourself tonight. that's gonna be your decision, but I'm not emotionally invested in it. What you're talking about? Are people that we are emotionally invested in and I get in the weeds with? You can help me to understand, you lost your husband. tell me about that. that must have been a horrible though. Yeah, I mean that's just I was thinking about nurse friend of mine who lost her husband and told me the story. And I was like, I really did feel for I really. I mean. how horrible you had to take care of him? You were a minister before this. You lost your husband And you change your purpose in life to become a nurse and provide infusion therapy to cancer. Patients, like me. I'm the lucky one here, you…

Joshua Berglan: Yeah.

Terry Tucker: I mean but

Terry Tucker: That empathy. You might open your soul up to get hurt. And in all honesty, I'd rather risk getting hurt and connect with those people. Then just kind of have that line in the sand where nope, get not going over that. not gonna put myself out there, not gonna bear my soul to you because you might hurt me. You might But if you do, then hopefully, I will learn something from that. I remember the quote from Nelson, Mandela former president of South Africa who said I never lose, I either learn or I win

00:40:00

Joshua Berglan: I like that one. I love that quote, one of my favorite ones. So what are you doing now? That guy, I'm So the last time you have your book and you're speaking, but it always seems like you're You're creating something new. What are you doing now?

Terry Tucker: Yeah, I'm actually compiling another book. Haven't started writing kind of putting the stories together that I wanted to include in the book. I actually was just in a book that these two women wrote over in Europe. I was just asked to write a chapter about my cancer story for another book that's coming out. So, I'm doing a lot of writing and things, right now, still doing the podcast, still going on and telling a little bit about my story and what I learned And trying to help people and then still being treated. I'm treated every three weeks for an entire week at the hospital. So I'm kind of as my dad used to say off the air, when during that that week and then I've got two weeks off and, like I said, of writing do a lot of podcasting, just spending my time, trying to make a difference.

Joshua Berglan: I've actually watched a couple of your podcasts that you've done recently and You just deliver every time you're like the world's greatest podcast, guest I think. I'm kind of curious would happen…

Terry Tucker: Thank you.

Joshua Berglan: if you started your own podcast because I mean, you are Just a great guest. I mean you just bring it every time and I don't even know what I would have you back for, but you're welcome back. Anytime and…

Terry Tucker: Thank you.

Joshua Berglan: anytime you want to promote something, you can come back because I love talking to you. If I always leave inspired, I'd like for you to take the last words, please plug your website, plug anything you want. So should media and you can actually and take the last words. Anything that's on your heart. You want to share the floor is yours.

Terry Tucker: Okay, so my website is Motivationalcheck. I'm trying to decide. I think I told the other story, I'll tell you this story. I had a nurse recently asked me what it was like to have my foot amputated in 2018, and then to have my leg amputated in 2020. And Joshua and I told her I said, it hasn't been easy. I'm six foot eight inches tall so learning to walk. Again falling is not an option. You kind of get hurt from this height so it's not something that I do. But what I told her was

Joshua Berglan: Okay.

Terry Tucker: Answer can take all my physical faculties but that's my mind. It can't touch my heart and it can't touch my soul. And That's who you are. That's everybody's listening to us is and we spend so much time working on this body, we go to the gym, we eat, right? We get enough rest. We'll reduce stress. We do all those things and I'm absolutely not telling you not to do those things, you're absolutely should. But what I am suggesting is, maybe every day Spend a little more time on who you really are your heart, your mind, and your soul. We know this body's going to die. We know it's going to decay and go away, but your mind and your soul. I believe those things are eternal and I do not believe. We spend nearly as much time working on them as we should.

Joshua Berglan: Those are the best last words ever spoken on this program. Mr. Tucker God bless you. Thank you for the human that you are and all that you do. you're an inspiration to me and many others. Thank you so much.

Terry Tucker: Joshua, thanks for having me on. I enjoyed talking with you. Take care.

Joshua Berglan: Talk to you soon. Bye.

Meeting ended after 00:44:10 👋